Fears and thoughts in South Africa

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2 weeks 2 days ago #822448 by Lionel
@TN:

Step 1: Remove CR
Step 2: ?

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2 weeks 2 days ago #822451 by TNaicker

@TN:

Step 1: Remove CR
Step 2: ?


@Lionel...show me a post where I said that CR7 must be replaced as I know that within the current ANC, options are non-existent...I've pointed out his incompetence on so many issues and that he will likely be replaced at the next ANC elective conference...so to put faith in some-one like that, in an intact / unified ANC, is, in my opinion, folly as they have at most 2 years in which to make significant changes and that is not anywhere long enough with the cumulative problems we have...

What he should have done is doing what is right for SA even if it splits the ANC (like having the army act against the thugs even though they are ANC members) and then more moderates of all hues will join his agenda...hell, even I'll go and join an ANC branch to improve conference numbers...he'll get the support while he still has power in the ANC (after any split) rather than after he is removed by the ANC...when he'll go back to being a "successful businessman"...

His unity agenda has just let the criminals continue looting the public coffers and he has little ethical / moral basis on which to oppose them when he has already extracted his benefits for his part in the "struggle"...others want theirs...remember "We didn't struggle to be poor."...

The split works while the numbers are on his side...the split doesn't work if it goes to the next ANC elective conference...either the crooks are going to feel "cold on the outside" if done now or the CR7 faction are going to be on the outside after the next elective conference...just over a year away...Gwede Mantashe is the wild-card as he has presidential ambitions and will side with the Magashule / Mabuza group if it will eventually get him there...

Just offering my opinion and I'm fine if criticised for it...branches determine delegates and delegates determine ANC leaders...control the branches and you control the ANC and that is where Magashule and Mabuza and Mantashe are concentrating their efforts while all the litigation targeting Zumaites occupies airtime...

Life's too short to have a long face...so, cherish the good, learn from the bad and forget the rest...

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2 weeks 2 days ago #822454 by mikesack

@TN:

Step 1: Remove CR
Step 2: ?


I had a dream......That Dr Imtiaz Sooliman was the President.
And Leon Schuster was Deputy-President.
When I woke up I realised it was only a pipe dream.

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2 weeks 2 days ago - 2 weeks 2 days ago #822456 by Lionel
I believe in playing the hand that you are dealt. The ANC is the ruling party. The chances of that changing in my lifetime is close to zero. So the question i ask is, who from the ANC, would I want at the helm?
Last edit: 2 weeks 2 days ago by Lionel.

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2 weeks 2 days ago #822462 by TNaicker

I believe in playing the hand that you are dealt. The ANC is the ruling party. The chances of that changing in my lifetime is close to zero. So the question i ask is, who from the ANC, would I want at the helm?


Within the current ANC, CR7 is going to find it extremely difficult to be re-elected because Magashule (SG) / Mabuza (DP)/ Mantashe (??) (Chair) have focused their efforts on the branches who determine the delegates who determine the ANC elections...that's all I'm saying...

Life's too short to have a long face...so, cherish the good, learn from the bad and forget the rest...

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2 weeks 2 days ago #822466 by Lionel
If its any one of those 3, then its lights out for SA. That is why CR must purge the ANC.
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2 weeks 1 day ago #822487 by jim
Tn your analysis makes a lot of sense. What I think you are missing is the precariousness of crs position. In order to impose his will on the anc he has to do it legally not politically. As you have highlighted he will not win at branch level so he has to remove the ret faction by locking them up. Surely this insurrection has handed the ret to him on a silver platter as he can easily prosecte without a bad political backlash.

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2 weeks 1 day ago #822489 by TNaicker

Tn your analysis makes a lot of sense. What I think you are missing is the precariousness of crs position. In order to impose his will on the anc he has to do it legally not politically. As you have highlighted he will not win at branch level so he has to remove the ret faction by locking them up. Surely this insurrection has handed the ret to him on a silver platter as he can easily prosecte without a bad political backlash.


Many thanks...CR7 is a little bit stronger now than at last elective conference but if it goes to the next elective conference with the ANC "unified", he's gone...

And now, there is not enough time to rid the ANC of the RET faction legally as they will use the Zuma tactics of dragging the legal processes out...only need to drag it out till end of next year when elective conference takes place...

In putting his self preservation first and the ANC unity before what is best for SA, CR7 has wasted 2-3 years of his ANC leadership by keeping many Zumaites in some form of power and in a position to do what they need to at branch level...the Zumaites will not waste a second purging the ANC of CR7's faction (which is replete with people who blow with the wind and will ditch him the minute their self-interests are compromised / threatened) when they get back in power...and that is what he should have done from the start...

:( :( :unsure:

Life's too short to have a long face...so, cherish the good, learn from the bad and forget the rest...

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4 days 12 hours ago - 4 days 12 hours ago #823078 by mikesack
The writer of the article is foolish.

He was instrumental in the fight for ARV'S to be rolled out for people with HIV and AIDS. He fought with the then Minister of Health, the beetroot lady and the pipe-smoking President ThaboM.

He was well aware at the time that the blood tests for HIV, the Elisa and the Western Blot tests were very accurate in confirming someone's HIV positive status.

Now the Mampara is taking up issue with the SAHRC which advises against employers forcing their employees to get the Covid jab.

His argument??

Covid is a contagious disease unlike HIV so vaccines are mandatory.
Can someone tell him that Influenza is also a contagious disease and people do die of Flu every year.

Employers donot compel their staff to take a Flu Vaccine during the Flu season do they, it is advisable not to report to work until they are over with the Flu.

So why should they do so in the Covid situation?

The writer has blemished his record by endorsing the " ROLL OUT " brigade's mission to flood the world with the experimental vacs instead of pushing for cheaper alternative treatments like Ivermectin, Prednisone etc IMVHO.


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THE ARTICLE IN THE DM



The South African Human Rights Commission (SAHRC) has stated that it would be a violation of human rights to compel people to get vaccinated if they have chosen not to. The Gauteng provincial manager appealed to people who feel compelled by their employers to get vaccinated to lodge a complaint with the commission.

In response, advocate Jonathan Berger, who worked tirelessly in the 2000s for people with HIV to have access to medicine, wrote on Twitter: “The HRC appears to be opposed to any and all vaccine mandates, regardless of context. That’s deeply problematic. And dangerous.”

Berger is entirely correct.

The SAHRC’s position illustrates a misunderstanding between an infectious illness and one that is contagious.

Infectious illnesses such as HIV are not transmitted through casual contact, whereas Covid-19 is a contagious disease that is transmitted through casual contact. Therefore Covid is a notifiable illness and the health authorities have extensive powers based on a rational limitation of certain fundamental rights such as privacy and freedom of movement.




Lockdowns in response to the epidemic have cost millions of people employment or loss of income. The state has, for varying periods of time, shut down schools and places of worship. Lockdowns have restricted movement, political gatherings and social activities. They have affected every person and constituted an extensive limitation of fundamental rights. This was done to save lives. That the SAHRC accepted the total social and economic shutdown as rational raises the question of whether its latest intervention is posturing or simply misguided.

We can debate the extent to which lockdowns were needed and the way they were implemented. But vaccines unequivocally offer a way to end them.

Refusal by a person to take a vaccine when there is no medical reason to do so affects the rights to life, health, dignity, safe work environment, education, safe worship and socialising of other people. The SAHRC is surely misguided in its approach.

As I’ve argued before, schools should be able to compel teachers to get vaccinated. Workers in hospitals and institutions, such as old age homes, would be grossly irresponsible to refuse vaccination. Their employers would potentially be violating the rights of patients and elderly residents by allowing unvaccinated employees to continue coming to work.

It appears that in at least one instance a landlord has threatened to evict tenants who refuse to get vaccinated. Here context matters. In some high-density properties where there are predominantly elderly people, or where tenants live in close proximity, this may be justified. But eviction is an extreme measure and frequently a serious violation of human rights. So mandatory vaccination in such a situation requires more discussion. But it is in any case better decided on a case-by-case basis by a court, not a misguided SAHRC-led campaign.

The SAHRC claims that it “supports the state’s efforts to vaccinate as many people within South Africa as possible”. But its blanket opposition to mandatory vaccination undermines the state’s efforts. DM

The writer Z.Achmat was co-founder and chairperson of the Treatment Action Campaign in the 2000s.
Last edit: 4 days 12 hours ago by mikesack.

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3 days 16 hours ago - 3 days 16 hours ago #823114 by mikesack
Sorry to burst the bubble but Zachy this publication says your Covid Vaccinated colleague can STILL infect people with Covid.




zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Delta variant spreads as quickly as chickenpox even among vaccinated, leaked CDC data concludes
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Mayank Aggarwal 58 mins ago































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The Delta variant of the coronavirus spreads as quickly as chickenpox, even among those who are vaccinated, and appears to cause more severe illness, according to a leaked document of the US’s Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
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a screenshot of a video game in the living room: US President Joe Biden delivers remarks on the efforts to get more Americans vaccinated and the spread of the Delta variant in East Room of the White House in Washington, DC, USA, 29 July 2021 - EPA© EPA
US President Joe Biden delivers remarks on the efforts to get more Americans vaccinated and the spread of the Delta variant in East Room of the White House in Washington, DC, USA, 29 July 2021
- EPA
Each person infected with the Delta variant can, on average, end up spreading the virus to eight or nine others, making it as transmissible as chickenpox, according to the document.

The CDC should, thus, “acknowledge the war has changed” while recommending vaccine mandates and universal mask requirements, said the document, which is in the form of a slide presentation.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Still unpublished research cited by the document also pointed out that people who are fully vaccinated against Covid-19 might spread the Delta variant at a rate similar to their unvaccinated counterparts.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


The document, however, said vaccinated people are safer, with the risk of severe disease or death decreasing 10-fold and the risk of contracting infection reducing as much as three times.

“Vaccines prevent more than 90 per cent of severe disease, but may be less effective at preventing infection or transmission. Therefore, more breakthrough and more community spread despite vaccination,” it said.




Dr Rochelle Walensky, the CDC director, confirmed the authenticity of the document that was first accessed by The Washington Post.

“I think people need to understand that we’re not crying wolf here. This is serious. It’s one of the most transmissible viruses we know about. Measles, chickenpox, this – they’re all up there,” she told CNN News.

Dr Walensky emphasised that students, staff and visitors in schools should wear masks at all times.

"The measures we need to get this under control – they’re extreme. The measures you need are extreme," she said.

On Tuesday, the CDC issued a recommendation that said vaccinated people must wear masks indoors in parts of the US where the delta variant is fuelling infection surges.

Over the last three weeks, the US has recorded close to a million cases.

From news to politics, travel to sport, culture to climate – The Independent has a host of free newsletters to suit your interests. To find the stories you want to read, and more, in your inbox, click here.
Last edit: 3 days 16 hours ago by mikesack.

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3 days 14 hours ago #823133 by Magi
Mikesack...thank you for being a voice of reason in this sadly deteriorating place.

First and foremost since when does ANY organisation, government, pharma company EVER have the right to tell you what you have to do with your body?

Secondly this is a vaccine in NAME ONLY.

Still vulnerable, still infectious .... and at risk from a man made mRNA which has the potential to cause all kinds of mischief later in life.

We all gamblers...so how about looking at risk and reward. Whats the reward for taking the injection?

You have bragging rights.... that is about it. And if there are requirements to carry covid injection passports....you are IN.

CONS...well that is unknown but the risk is there. Use Presearch.org and search for "covid vaccination lawsuits" as a starting point....
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3 days 14 hours ago #823138 by TNaicker
Each to their own regarding these yet to be fully approved vaccines...

If it's your time, whatever your current age is, you go...it could be from the Chinese coronavirus, it could be an accident, it could be a meteor...one life to live so live...a life lived in fear is a life half lived...

Take care and stay safe...

Life's too short to have a long face...so, cherish the good, learn from the bad and forget the rest...
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3 days 11 hours ago - 3 days 11 hours ago #823160 by CnC 306
We all have free will so if its your choice not to have the vaccine if offered to you then its your choice, BUT if you catch Covid you should not expect to be treated, go and treat yourself as you obviously know better and if you are a non symptomatic carrier and you pass the virus onto somebody else and you are an anti vaxer then you are selfish prick.
Last edit: 3 days 11 hours ago by CnC 306.
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3 days 11 hours ago - 3 days 11 hours ago #823161 by CnC 306
Last edit: 3 days 11 hours ago by CnC 306.

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3 days 11 hours ago #823163 by CnC 306
I have had both my jabs and I did it not only for me but for everybody else that I come into contact with.
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3 days 10 hours ago #823164 by Dave Scott
We live in dangerous times and let's be honest we have basically ##cked things up as a human race.

As my granny used to say " we are a short time living and a long time dead,".

Plus I forgot that the bottle stores were closed on a Friday 🥸😪
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3 days 10 hours ago - 3 days 10 hours ago #823165 by mikesack

We all have free will so if its your choice not to have the vaccine if offered to you then its your choice, BUT if you catch Covid you should not expect to be treated, go and treat yourself as you obviously know better and if you are a non symptomatic carrier and you pass the virus onto somebody else and you are an anti vaxer then you are selfish prick.


CNC 306...……………….. You missed the bit about the vaccinated still being able to pass the virus around according to the CDC report.
To break it down slowly...………….this is like a PRICK WITH A CONDOM ON but it will still be infecting others or getting infected itself with HIV. :lol:
Last edit: 3 days 10 hours ago by mikesack.
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3 days 10 hours ago #823166 by CnC 306
The Delta Variant, aka Johnson Varient, can infect people who have had the double jab, but it wont kill you. Only extremely vulnerable people, 3rd and 4th stage cancer patients, people with extreme heart conditions and those with lung conditions will most likely die. Why take the risk by not having the jab. When you get onto a motor bike you wear a helmet, or you wear a seat belt when you drive. You can still die if you are involved in an accident but your chances of surviving are much greater if you wear a helmet or a seat belt. I was on hospital last year and what the nurses told me about covid patients was heart breaking. They told me that they have seen everything but nothing, absolutely nothing prepared them for helping covid patients. To know that the patient has no or little chance was the worst part. To see people dying and there was nothing that they could do for them was soul destroying yet we have people who refuse to have the jab. Mind blowing imo. So many stories coming out that anti vaxers catching the virus are begging nurses and doctors to give them the jab, too late. The vaccine cannot cure you its a prevention. But hey its your choice but dont destroy or end another persons life because of refusing to have the vaccine.
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3 days 9 hours ago #823169 by Magi
"..BUT if you catch Covid you should not expect to be treated, go and treat yourself as you obviously know better and if you are a non symptomatic carrier and you pass the virus onto somebody else and you are an anti vaxer then you are selfish prick."

Rodney, it's an asymptomatic carrier...and you my friend are a sanctimonious prick . You DID it for everyone else my arse.

You always find it necessary to attack the person... not the viewpoint because you do not have the clarity of thought to assimilate simple facts. You are also incapable of listening to an alternative point of view.

"The CDC and the vaccine manufacturers are on record admitting that the COVID-19 vaccines do not prevent the spread of COVID-19.

Indeed, prior to the EUA authorization by the FDA of the Pfizer-BioNtech vaccine the Daily Mail reported that on or before December 4, 2020, “Pfizer CEO [Albert Bourla] admits he is ‘not certain’ their COVID-19 shot will prevent vaccinated people from spreading the virus.”

Moderna Chief Medical Officer Tal Zaks is on record saying that the Moderna vaccine can prevent someone from getting sick from COVID-19 but that there is no evidence that it can prevent someone receiving the vaccine from carrying the vaccine and infecting others. Prior to the FDA issuance of the EUA for the Moderna vaccine, on or before November 23, 2020, Zaks stated: “our results show that this vaccine can prevent you from being sick, it can prevent you from being severely sick. They do not show that it prevents you from potentially carrying this virus transiently and infecting others.”

The predictions of Moderna and Pfizer have proven correct. A very high percentage of new COVID-19 cases are from vaccinated persons. Britain’s Chief Scientific Adviser Patrick Vallance claimed that he mistakenly said that 60% of people being admitted to hospital with COVID-19 are fully vaccinated. He later clarified that he meant to say that 60% of those admitted for COVID-19 to the hospital are unvaccinated. Please don’t miss the significance of that admission. It means that the England health authorities admit that 40% of COVID-19 hospitalizations are from fully vaccinated persons. The plaintiffs make a common-sense observation:
"

The above from "Doctors on the Frontline's lawsuit submission ....

Hey Hoender... but you wont find that on CNN or any of your MSM ... or on Facebook or Twitter. So it CANNOT be true.
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3 days 9 hours ago #823171 by CnC 306
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