Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

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Re: Re:Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

1 year 4 months ago
#854552
And imagine if there was no Hollywood Bets pumping money into the game,it would have closed shop by now as the operators game plan is not sustainable with the amount of punters these days.
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Re: Re:Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

1 year 4 months ago
#854554
And imagine if there was no Hollywood Bets pumping money into the game,it would have closed shop by now as the operators game plan is not sustainable with the amount of punters these days.

IMO if it wasn't for Formgrids assisting punters to study form and Hollywood with their sponsorship racing would of been in the doldrums.

Formgrids is the best thing to happen in SA racing. I would of quit racing a long time ago. The operators should give the owner of Formgrids a medal.

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Re: Re:Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

1 year 4 months ago
#854555
Greyville first race a Maiden Handicap Races. I'm out of the Bipot.
1st TWO MINDS 12/1
2nd SEA CRUISE 16/1

I throw my money down the drain punting in Maiden Handicap Races. Casino is now seems like a better option.

In South Africa after a maiden horse gets a rating, it hardly ever runs in a handicap compared to the UK or in a lower Classified Stakes.

I do not know the statistics for Maiden Handicaps with horses carrying top weights or just below. If the horses was carded as per its rating and its weight then the winner of the first race, Two Minds, had the joint second highest rating.

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Re: Re:Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

1 year 4 months ago
#854560
Greyville first race a Maiden Handicap Races. I'm out of the Bipot.
1st TWO MINDS 12/1
2nd SEA CRUISE 16/1

I throw my money down the drain punting in Maiden Handicap Races. Casino is now seems like a better option.


Tero, how did these two benefit from the handicap condition of the race?

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Re: Re:Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

1 year 4 months ago
#854567
Greyville first race a Maiden Handicap Races. I'm out of the Bipot.
1st TWO MINDS 12/1
2nd SEA CRUISE 16/1

I throw my money down the drain punting in Maiden Handicap Races. Casino is now seems like a better option.

In South Africa after a maiden horse gets a rating, it hardly ever runs in a handicap compared to the UK or in a lower Classified Stakes.

I do not know the statistics for Maiden Handicaps with horses carrying top weights or just below. If the horses was carded as per its rating and its weight then the winner of the first race, Two Minds, had the joint second highest rating.

The question one has to ask, if all these horses carried level weights would the results been different? There is a high probability that the form horse and the favourite Kittyboys Girl which finished 3rd might of finished 2nd or perhaps won the race. Many punters would be standing in the Bipot IMO.

One of the core aims of the operator should be to assist punters to win with less complicated systems especially for maiden races. Thereby growing the sport and getting new blood into the game.

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Re: Re:Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

1 year 4 months ago
#854569
Greyville first race a Maiden Handicap Races. I'm out of the Bipot.
1st TWO MINDS 12/1
2nd SEA CRUISE 16/1

I throw my money down the drain punting in Maiden Handicap Races. Casino is now seems like a better option.


Tero, how did these two benefit from the handicap condition of the race?

Both the first horse past the post Two Minds 58kg and second horse Sea Cruise 58,5kg carried less weight as opposed to the third horse the favourite Kittyboys Girl 60kg. Weight slows down a horse hence Kittyboys Girl the best form horse was disadvantaged because it's a maiden Handicap race. Under normal circumstances in a maiden plate race it would of carried the same weight as the winner. IMO the results would of been different.

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Re: Re:Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

1 year 4 months ago
#854573
Greyville first race a Maiden Handicap Races. I'm out of the Bipot.
1st TWO MINDS 12/1
2nd SEA CRUISE 16/1

I throw my money down the drain punting in Maiden Handicap Races. Casino is now seems like a better option.


Tero, how did these two benefit from the handicap condition of the race?

Both the first horse past the post Two Minds 58kg and second horse Sea Cruise 58,5kg carried less weight as opposed to the third horse the favourite Kittyboys Girl 60kg. Weight slows down a horse hence Kittyboys Girl the best form horse was disadvantaged because it's a maiden Handicap race. Under normal circumstances in a maiden plate race it would of carried the same weight as the winner. IMO the results would of been different.

Is it fair racing when - the superior- Kittyboys Girl(61) run at level weights against Two Minds(57) and Sea Cruise (58)?

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Re: Re:Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

1 year 4 months ago
#854575
Tero there is merit in your argument.
In the past the good old Maiden Plate, Novice Plate and Graduation Plate worked very well.
Now it's all become Handicaps based on MR.
Why don't they go the FULL MONTY and make the Kings Plate and Hollywood Gold Challenge a Handicap too.
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Re: Re:Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

1 year 4 months ago
#854576
Greyville first race a Maiden Handicap Races. I'm out of the Bipot.
1st TWO MINDS 12/1
2nd SEA CRUISE 16/1

I throw my money down the drain punting in Maiden Handicap Races. Casino is now seems like a better option.


Tero, how did these two benefit from the handicap condition of the race?

Both the first horse past the post Two Minds 58kg and second horse Sea Cruise 58,5kg carried less weight as opposed to the third horse the favourite Kittyboys Girl 60kg. Weight slows down a horse hence Kittyboys Girl the best form horse was disadvantaged because it's a maiden Handicap race. Under normal circumstances in a maiden plate race it would of carried the same weight as the winner. IMO the results would of been different.

Is it fair racing when - the superior- Kittyboys Girl(61) run at level weights against Two Minds(57) and Sea Cruise (58)?

The merit rating for younger horses imo is not accurate because there are many variables.
1) You got horses that have sprinting, middle distance and long distance pedigrees. For example a trainer runs a horse that's more suitable on pedigree for a long distance race but the first few races he puts it over sprint trips it gets allocated a low merit rating of 45. The next time out the trainer puts the horse over its correct distance and it carries 52kg because of its low merit rating and it wins by many lenghts. Do you think that's fair? ( Open to manipulation)
2) You got trainers that fine tune their horses to perform from their very first run and then you got other trainers that just send their horses for a gallop and let them learn to race at a slower rate. The individual training methods may differ. If a trainer sends out for gallops hence the horse gets a low merit rating. Once it's allocated a low weight of 52kg and priced up at 20/1 and it romps home. Is this fair? There too many unscrupulous people in horse racing imo.
3) Then you have horses that are quite immature both mentally and physically and be less ready on debut and make more progress after 3 or 4 races.

IMO, I don't think anybody has any conclusive scientific evidence to proof this merit rating for young horses are 100% accurate. It's open to manipulation. It will tarnish the image of racing even further. Many a times I heard non punters and punters saying racing is crooked.

IMO betting shop owners are celebrating with Maiden Handicap Races. Because I view handicap races as a lottery. Might as well play lotto or the casino. An astute professional punter said stay away from handicap races those are for mug punters.

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Re: Re:Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

1 year 4 months ago
#854577

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Re: Re:Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

1 year 4 months ago - 1 year 4 months ago
#854579
Greyville first race a Maiden Handicap Races. I'm out of the Bipot.
1st TWO MINDS 12/1
2nd SEA CRUISE 16/1

I throw my money down the drain punting in Maiden Handicap Races. Casino is now seems like a better option.


Tero, how did these two benefit from the handicap condition of the race?

Both the first horse past the post Two Minds 58kg and second horse Sea Cruise 58,5kg carried less weight as opposed to the third horse the favourite Kittyboys Girl 60kg. Weight slows down a horse hence Kittyboys Girl the best form horse was disadvantaged because it's a maiden Handicap race. Under normal circumstances in a maiden plate race it would of carried the same weight as the winner. IMO the results would of been different.

Is it fair racing when - the superior- Kittyboys Girl(61) run at level weights against Two Minds(57) and Sea Cruise (58)?

The merit rating for younger horses imo is not accurate because there are many variables.
1) You got horses that have sprinting, middle distance and long distance pedigrees. For example a trainer runs a horse that's more suitable on pedigree for a long distance race but the first few races he puts it over sprint trips it gets allocated a low merit rating of 45. The next time out the trainer puts the horse over its correct distance and it carries 52kg because of its low merit rating and it wins by many lenghts. Do you think that's fair? ( Open to manipulation)
2) You got trainers that fine tune their horses to perform from their very first run and then you got other trainers that just send their horses for a gallop and let them learn to race at a slower rate. The individual training methods may differ. If a trainer sends out for gallops hence the horse gets a low merit rating. Once it's allocated a low weight of 52kg and priced up at 20/1 and it romps home. Is this fair? There too many unscrupulous people in horse racing imo.
3) Then you have horses that are quite immature both mentally and physically and be less ready on debut and make more progress after 3 or 4 races.

IMO, I don't think anybody has any conclusive scientific evidence to proof this merit rating for young horses are 100% accurate. It's open to manipulation. It will tarnish the image of racing even further. Many a times I heard non punters and punters saying racing is crooked.

IMO betting shop owners are celebrating with Maiden Handicap Races. Because I view handicap races as a lottery. Might as well play lotto or the casino. An astute professional punter said stay away from handicap races those are for mug punters.

I hear you Tero and I read the article you posted. Firstly, the assumption that handicaps favour bad horses is actually not true instead they give every runner a fair chance. If KG was good enough she would have given those professional maidens weight and a beating. Secondly if they had run at level weights KG would have probably just won but at 5/10.

I'm all for maiden handicaps, they make racing exciting and give the strugglers - like the 2nd and 4th horse in that race - a chance to earn some some money.

There's a very consistent 5yo-maiden-gelding called Lazy Guy, this horse could've won a handicap long time ago and may even be a three-time winner by now but for some reason they are hell-bent on winning a maiden race at level-weights
Last edit: 1 year 4 months ago by Stonelast.

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Re: Re:Maiden Handicap Races -Tote punters nightmare

1 year 4 months ago
#854586
Greyville first race a Maiden Handicap Races. I'm out of the Bipot.
1st TWO MINDS 12/1
2nd SEA CRUISE 16/1

I throw my money down the drain punting in Maiden Handicap Races. Casino is now seems like a better option.


Tero, how did these two benefit from the handicap condition of the race?

Both the first horse past the post Two Minds 58kg and second horse Sea Cruise 58,5kg carried less weight as opposed to the third horse the favourite Kittyboys Girl 60kg. Weight slows down a horse hence Kittyboys Girl the best form horse was disadvantaged because it's a maiden Handicap race. Under normal circumstances in a maiden plate race it would of carried the same weight as the winner. IMO the results would of been different.

Is it fair racing when - the superior- Kittyboys Girl(61) run at level weights against Two Minds(57) and Sea Cruise (58)?

The merit rating for younger horses imo is not accurate because there are many variables.
1) You got horses that have sprinting, middle distance and long distance pedigrees. For example a trainer runs a horse that's more suitable on pedigree for a long distance race but the first few races he puts it over sprint trips it gets allocated a low merit rating of 45. The next time out the trainer puts the horse over its correct distance and it carries 52kg because of its low merit rating and it wins by many lenghts. Do you think that's fair? ( Open to manipulation)
2) You got trainers that fine tune their horses to perform from their very first run and then you got other trainers that just send their horses for a gallop and let them learn to race at a slower rate. The individual training methods may differ. If a trainer sends out for gallops hence the horse gets a low merit rating. Once it's allocated a low weight of 52kg and priced up at 20/1 and it romps home. Is this fair? There too many unscrupulous people in horse racing imo.
3) Then you have horses that are quite immature both mentally and physically and be less ready on debut and make more progress after 3 or 4 races.

IMO, I don't think anybody has any conclusive scientific evidence to proof this merit rating for young horses are 100% accurate. It's open to manipulation. It will tarnish the image of racing even further. Many a times I heard non punters and punters saying racing is crooked.

IMO betting shop owners are celebrating with Maiden Handicap Races. Because I view handicap races as a lottery. Might as well play lotto or the casino. An astute professional punter said stay away from handicap races those are for mug punters.

I hear you Tero and I read the article you posted. Firstly, the assumption that handicaps favour bad horses is actually not true instead they give every runner a fair chance. If KG was good enough she would have given those professional maidens weight and a beating. Secondly if they had run at level weights KG would have probably just won but at 5/10.

I'm all for maiden handicaps, they make racing exciting and give the strugglers - like the 2nd and 4th horse in that race - a chance to earn some some money.

There's a very consistent 5yo-maiden-gelding called Lazy Guy, this horse could've won a handicap long time ago and may even be a three-time winner by now but for some reason they are hell-bent on winning a maiden race at level-weights

Stonelast I disagree with you, I believe:-
1) Handicap races do favour bad horse.
2) From a punters perspective if a horse he backed wins and it's 5/10 that's what's exciting for him.
3) Wrt to Lazy Guy it's the duty of the trainer to find a race with similar ability horses to compete in. Alternatively, the operator should group horses with similar ability and create a race for them.

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